You probably haven’t heard of the show Cbeebies. This is because of two reasons: 1. It’s British and 2. Most people reading this blog are 16-18 year olds and it’s a television network for children under the age of six. Why am I talking about it? I feel obligated to mention it because it was the centre of a large controversy in physical disabilities.
Meet Cerrie Burnell, a new host to the children’s network Cbeesies. What makes her so special from any other host on any children’s show is that Burnell only has one hand. This caused a lot of controversy throughout parents of children everywhere. They complained that the disability would scare their children. About 25 official complaints were filled about the issue. Of course, the people who filed complaints weren’t the only ones who had something to say. People logged on message boards and voiced their own opinions. But were these opinions over the edge? The Tart has an example of some of the parent’s complaints.
“One incensed parent ranted, ‘It’s a disgrace. I had to sit my 4 year old boy down and explain to him what a retard is. I’d only just explained to him why Jade Goody is bald and all.’
Another fumed, ‘I was watching CBeebies the other day with my 3 year old daughter, and this Burnell took about a bloody hour just to cut out a leaf shape from some paper. It’s offensive. I mean I’d only just got over Sachsgate and now I have to deal with this.’”
Ouch. Imagine you had a disability like Burnell and things like that were said about you. The fact is, they’re not just complaining about the fact that this might scare their children, they’re complaining about parenting. Oh no, you have to explain why some people have disabilities! Oh, the horror! Please, shouldn’t it be better that they’re being exposed to this at a young age? The parent’s complaints are poisoning the children’s minds into thinking they should discriminate against others different from them as well. Instead, they should teach them why people are like that, be glad to, and let them know that they are no different from any other human being or any less important. Let’s see what Burnell is like in an interview on BBC News:
Obviously she’s taking everything quite well. That’s very commendable. I don’t find anything wrong with her, do you? She can still make some children laugh, smile and learn things. She can also help children learn about disabilities and acceptance. What she said was true. Disabilities never scared me when I was little, but I was very inquisitive. Because I got the right explanation and people made sure I understood, I now know today that some people are the way they are, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Some parents might be scared of differences, but that doesn’t mean they should complain when they have the opportunity to teach their children to be more accepting then they are themselves. They should take a lesson from their children and Cerrie Burnell. Always stay open minded!
Morgan, James. Disabled Children's TV Host Faces Criticism from Parents. 27 Feb. 2009. 30 Mar. 2009 http://www.thetartpaper.com/articles/view/673
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I am not going to lie, it felt a little bizarre to watch an amputee host a kids show. However, I feel it was not due to being uncomfortable around or seeing people with physical disabilities (I am not uncomfortable around or seeing such people), but rather because I have never been exposed to such a thing before on Television. Maybe people would be less scared or concerned if viewers saw more people like Cerrie on television programming?
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the intelligence factor of these adults, they are rather dim. Oh no! Talking to your children! Parents should understand before they have children that things will happen during their children's life that will need explaining. They must understand that in order for their children to become acceptive, they must take the time to teach their children about life. By not sitting down and discussing with their children about how and why people with disabilities are how they are, they are depriving their children of an open mind.
I also find it quite humourous that these parents whine and complain about using up their time to explain to their children. Honestly?! What are these individuals doing that is so important that they can't take a minute of their time to explain to their children? Now, if they were doing something such as creating a time machine or discovering the cure for cancer, I could find it understandable. However, we all know that these people are sitting on the couch watching Television, and "God" forbid they don't get their 4+ hours of TV into their day!
Okay, so let’s just pretend that most parents want or dream their kids be lawyers and doctors (shocker, I know), how does one go about doing so? Well, having a comfortable college fund before you’re out of the womb helps, for one. Also, attaining high marks in high school definitely helps. Oh, and going to science camps and such wouldn’t hurt. But a good lawyer must be open-minded and be able to defend many different cases and people. Now how might the lawyer, who is fresh out of Law school and his rent is arriving just around the corner, act when his first client comes in with no arm. Now keep in mind this is the same lawyer that throughout his life has been told by his parents that people with disabilities are stupid, scary, useless, incapable people. They no nothing else, as they have been sheltered most of their lives from such cases. Yes, I’m sure a good lawyer could look past that and maybe win the case. But imagine how much stronger the case could be when the lawyer knows how to interact (normally), understand (or attempt to), is comfortable around people with disabilities.
ReplyDeleteTo summarize, the more you see, and live with different people, whether it be their race, religion, culture, appearance, or language, allow you the greatest advantage. To those parents who are complaining about absolute nonsense, and are probably the parents who want to give their children the best life possible, no amount of money or ignorance will improve your child’s future. You are given one chance and if you can’t be bothered to meet basic parenting needs, then what’s the point of anything you do?
This is one of the worst topics a parent could complain about.First this would be a very easy problem to solve. Some parents don't seem want to explain this topic to kids, and why are children shows like this put out there for? To teach children different things. Why not do a whole special episode on disabilities? It would solve many problems. First it would teach children about people with disabilities, there you go parents you job would be done for you. Second it could spread awareness about disabilities. I mean it kind of fits right in with what the show is about. Second, why aren't they more worried about other shows they could be watching with out them knowing, or maybe that they are watching but the parents might not find as bad.
ReplyDeleteI also think that at lest some of the complaints are coming from people with just have nothing better to do then to complain about things. Some might just really not like people with disabilities, and want to make life miserable for them. What makes that worse is that that are using there children to do it.
Now not everyone would fit into that kind category and might just be ignorant about disabilities, they would benefit from watching the show with their children. Also this whole thing might of seemed angrier then I meant. I really didn't mean to do it if I did.
Most people have disabilities; just some are more noticeable than others. Height is even a disability believe it or not. I looked up the meaning of disabilities and this is what I found; a physical or mental handicap, esp. one that prevents a person from living a full, normal life or from holding a gainful job. To me that sounds all wrong. People with disabilities have just as much of a purpose as the average person has. (Notice how I used the word average and not “normal,” like the definition had used.) There is no normal; everyone is unique in their own ways. I’m pretty sure the people who hired this young girl didn’t care that she only had one hand, they probably hired her so that young kids will get used to seeing people who are disabled because you can’t stop your child from seeing a disabled person, there all over. We need to embrace that more. Disabled people are judged right away just by their looks, you don’t know why they are like that, they could be a rocket scientist and you just called them a “retard.”
ReplyDeleteI can relate to this because when I was in elementary school I wasn’t so bright, so I got tested to see if I had a learning disability, the results came back and yes it was true that I did have a learning disability. After that I was in the resource room a lot, and the teacher in that room called me retarded because I couldn’t understand some of the math problems.
Being made fun of hurts and by calling them names and hurting their feelings is pretty low. The people who say those things really need to take a step back and really look at what they are saying. What today’s parents are teaching their kids is unbelievable; they are teaching them that they should only like the people that look the same as them. We need to accept the different sorts of people that are around us, because we all live on the same planet and there is no way to get away from it all. Embrace your surroundings.
I think any parent who has complained about this scenario is suggesting that disabled people shouldn't have the same opportunities that the average person does. I'm not saying that we should have blind pilots, but a one-armed television host is reasonable.
ReplyDeleteYour child will inevitably see an amputee or a disabled person in their life. It would be better to have to explain the situation in the comfort of your own home than to have to do it on the spot after a disabled person has just been insulted or pointed out.
If there were an amputee in the same class as your child, would you ask to have your child moved to a different class, all for the sake of not having to talk to your kid?
If you really had a problem with your child watching the television show, you could have just told them not to watch it instead of complaining that the host was born without a full arm. That's just as ridiculous as complaining that Oprah has black hair. A person cannot choose how they are born and shouldn't have any less rights because they were born differently.
I guess these parents are treating it as though it's the new racism. People who are mentally or physically challenged will have to start attending different schools and sit at the back of the bus. It's not right. People are people and I think it's time society stopped looking at how people are different and get the idea that we're all HUMAN. Maybe that's a great lesson to teach a child after they've just witnessed a one-armed host. At the end of the day, she's still human, just like you, me, and any African, American, Canadian, Indian, German, or any other nationality that this child encounters in his early life.
In the HSP3M course, you learn that you begin to understand what is acceptable behaviour in society at an early age. I believe that if a child grows up ignorant to the varieties of different people in the world, as a teenager, he wont know how to react when he encounters one. So, i believe that having this television host on air will actually help a parent introduce this important lesson to their children.
I believe that if a child grows up ignorant to the varieties of different people in the world, as a teenager, they wont know how to react when they encounter one. So, I believe that having this television host on air will actually help a parent introduce this important lesson to their children.***
ReplyDeleteLast 2 sentences of the last paragraph. "he" should have been generalized and I forgot to capitalize my I.
I agree with John's statement that "some of the complaints are coming from people with just have nothing better to do then to complain about things.". In life, many people encounter certain characters that love to give their two cents and complain about everything and everyone but themselves. Perhaps if these people took the time they were complaining and used that time to explain disabilities to their kids, they would become less agitated all the time and they and their children would become better people.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with all who believe that having a physically disabled host will beneficial. If ignorant people start becoming so used to disabled individuals, in theory, their negative attitude towards these people would go away. Imagine if no one ever complained or made fun of people with disabilities (or people that are "different" in general)! People would be a lot happier, their would be a lot these hate and violence, and even financially it would be better! People wouldn't have to spend money to have their children or themselves receive therapy because they are being bullied or discriminated, and as a result, they would have more money to go out an enjoy life! One can only hope that ignorant individuals put down their "wall of hate" and begin letting people who are "different" into their lives.
Shame, shame, shame on all the people that criticize this young, disabled, beautiful woman. I don not understand how you can call someone with disabilities a “Retard”. I have noticed that this is how some parents truly raise their kids. Not to get off topic but I would like to give an example. In the mourning time I would sit with some friends. I don’t like to sit with the same people everyday so I go off and try a different group each day. When I see the special needs kids pass through in their group I would hear some negative comments from my peers. A comment that I often hear is “those retards crack make me laugh”. there is no way that that kid would find that funny unless their parents accept that kind of disrespect towards disabled individuals. Why didn’t the parent sit their kids down and explain that these individuals are humans. No , No, No, from what I can tell I see that the parents teach their kids that people that are disabled have no soul at all and should be treated like animals. I applaud the television network for employing someone who is disabled and for giving them a lead role in the show. Those kinds of people are what we need for this putrid world.
ReplyDeleteEven though this young lady was heavily criticized she did not bother to let a tear come out of her gorgeous eyes. She stayed strong and will stay strong because from the looks of it she’s the only disabled person on TV that teaches young children good material and she gives confidence to those kids at home that are disables.
If she can do it than anyone can, that is the kind of woman, no not just women but person that everyone should strive to become.
I have a question. If somehow there was a increase of children that are born with disablityies.Would those same parents have the same view of that lady if one of their children were born with a defect. hmmmm
ReplyDeleteThis intollerance towards the TV host is very unnerving but not very surprising at the same time. People in the world always have different opinions no matter where you go and this ,unfortunately, will never change because it is human nature to question the way things are. I think that the people that are complaining though are the very protective parents, and not the bad parents as many people are thinking. These parents do not want their children exposed to the world and just want a simple life with no stressing and such. These parents may have even planned to tell their children of these disabilities, but only later on in life when the child can put this information to more use. I'm not saying that this is acceptable just that we cannot assume that these are the evil parents from the fiery depths of hell.
ReplyDeleteThe TV host is kind of a beacon for adults with disabilities at the same time. There are very few people with disabilities out in the real world with a decent job, or even a job at that. In Hamilton I've only ever seen two disabled/ mentally disabled people working somewhere. One at a car wash and one at a Tim Hortons. Maybe someone has seen more but I certainly have not. With this accomplished actress, these disabled people may be able to fight for a right to work in a decent setting instead of just sitting by in life wondering how they are going to accomplish any of their dreams with their disability.
dark chalklate: "If somehow there was a increase of children that are born with disablityies.Would those same parents have the same view of that lady if one of their children were born with a defect"
ReplyDeleteYou raise a good point here. Because your right, all these parents who are complaining here are just being close-minded. If they had a child or personally had a disability they would feel totally different about this issue. In fact, they would probably be proud that finally some disabled people are getting represented on TV.
This whole topic reminds me of our TV racial diversity assignment. It is strange because (as dylan said) we never see amputees on TV. It is a good thing that they are finally getting some representation. And it's disgusting that anyone would frown upon that.
I agree "dark chalklate". I hate when people refer to people with mental and physical disabilities as "retards". In my opinion it shows a lack of intelligence and respect. Everyone deserves to be treated as equals as we are all the same at a certain level. Calling people with disabilities "retards" is the same as calling black people "niggers", asians "chinks" or muslims "terrorists". Although I am sure some people would argue that none of these names are offensive, the majority of people see these "nicknames" to have a negative connotation. People are being ignorant and using stereotypes to construct their view on the world, and we all know that this is not an efficient way to live!
ReplyDeleteGood point “dark chalklate” and to add on to your question, its highly likely that those parents who feel the need to be so ignorant and close-minded, would act totally differently if the tables turned. It’s often said teenagers feel invincible and think that nothing can happen to them. Well the same could be said about these parents, grown adults, who are supposed to be wise, responsible are open minded are acting invincible.
ReplyDeleteThere is no difference between a parent of a “normal” child and a “disabled” child. Parents are parents, and children are children. The parents of a “disabled” child most likely did not ask for their child to be different, it’s out of their control. It can happen to anyone. Just because you have what appears to be a normal child during the first couple of years, it doesn’t mean that nothing can happen to them that can take a ability from them.
By the way, hasn’t anyone heard of the saying or seen examples of how when a child has a disability, they always have a stronger ability that most people could never have or perfect.
Yes I have heard about that Pari. You mean how they have almost "supernatural" powers in a certain area? I personally have experienced this occurrence and it is quite incredible. I have seen Autistic children be able to do math questions beyond anyone's wildest imagination! There are also people who can remember things from when they were in their younger years of life that most people cannot recall. I have also seen real life people have the abilities that Dustin Hoffman's character Raymond has in the movie "Rainman"! It is quite incredible and surely isn't something people should be ashamed of letting their children know and understand!
ReplyDeleteI think this is a one-sided argument. So far no one disagrees that it is a shame that these parents are reacting like this. As they said in the video "...there have only been a few parents complain..." So, contrary to the general discussion, it is only a few select individuals who disagree with this whole concept.
ReplyDeleteIt is time that society moved on and dropped all of this discrimination. Just like how we over came racism one day we will overcome this too. But of course there will always be those close-minded people who will always support racism. These prejudices will never truly be gone and that's just something we will learn to live with.
Agreed Davey as I said earlier these people won't go away since it is in our nature to question the norm. In so I really honestly think this conversation is dead or close to it unless someone has a related topic to bring around or someone in our class joins the discussion with the second side of the argument.
ReplyDeleteThere might be people in our class that are scared to post as they might discriminate disabled people. It might be a scary thought that the majority of the class would be on their case as soon as they posted anything negative towards disabled individuals and perhaps it is because of this that they refrain from posting. Am I right?
ReplyDeletediscriminate against*
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with daveywavey, theres no argument here. I also agree with dark chalklate when he basically says that if the shoe were on the other foot, the parents would think twice about complaining about this television host. I wonder how the parents of a disabled child have reacted to the complaints made against this television host. I can't imagine that they'd be too pleased. I also agree with what RioNok said. I think it's great that these children with disablities now have somebody to look up to and admire on television.
ReplyDeleteI really think that these parents who are complaining about this simple situation should actually sit back and think of what good can come from children not being ignorant to the world around them. In the end, I think they would realize that there isn't much to actually complain about. Mind you, it has been said that there were not many complaints to begin with. So, maybe parents don't really need a slap in the face; most of them get the big picture. I wonder if anyone has actually phoned to make a positive comment. I wonder if anyone is commending CBeebies for having a disabled host or even congradulating Burnell for becoming successful with a disability.
Im not agreeing with those horrible comments those parents are saying at all about a tv host being physically disabled but you have to look at the viewpoint from both sides. These parents are just frustrated and maybe even scared about not being able to explain it to their children properly the first time and do not want to scare their children. People are scared of change and whats different. Imagine seeing that for the first time through the eyes of a child and as you know, young curious minds do not hesitate to point out differences in people they see around them.
ReplyDeletePicture yourself 15 years from now and your child comes running up to you pointing at the tv screen and askes, "mommy/daddy, why does that lady only have one arm?" Its not that parents hate the lady being on the tv with only one arm but they hate the idea of having to explain it to their child. It becomes awkward for the parent if they are not prepared and any little thing that was said wrong could be completely misinterperated by the child. It is a very personal and sensitive topic that should be explained to children when the time is right.
But what those parents are saying is completely wrong and disgusting. They are just narrow minded people who do not see the full picture. But, majority of people that are commenting on this blog are being hypocrites. How you ask? By saying that these parents should teach their kids to accept people like Cerrie Burnell but we are not accepting these parents for who they are. Sure it may not be the greatest thing to accept but you have to remember that no matter where or when, there will always be people like this who are afraid/do not know about the different. We must be able to accept them too since they are differant from us. By showing this love on them, they will eventually learn how to love as well.
Exactly rionok. There are always going to be those self-centered judgmental Nazi-like people out there who think the whole world should be the norm. But, society has moved on from that and learned to accept people as equal no matter what they look like, how smart or creative they are or where they come from. I'm not saying that we have a perfect situation, of course there is still discrimination and there always will be. I'm saying that we are approaching a leveled understanding and we are opening our minds to other cultures and peoples etc.
ReplyDeleteBasically everyone is agreeing in this argument hence it is dying. This whole discussion is on a bridge to nowhere and it's getting there fast.
Harujuku boi I just don't agree with one aspect of your comment int he fact that it would be awkward and annoying to have to tell these children why the lady has one arm. As a parent you should know that this could happen at any time and you need to be prepared for it in any case. Say you were walking down the street and a man with one arm walked by and your child asks that question. Are you going to send that man angry letters saying for him not to walk down the street? No(hopefully), you can't blame this stuff happening in your childs life you just need to deal with it and know anything could happen.
ReplyDeleteTo continue with what Dylan is saying, I think fear is the main issue. What we don’t know or unsure of can scare us. We can scare ourselves into believing anything. I think these parents find it much easier to avoid this subject, because of their own personal fear, and choose to blame other people. After all it is much easier.
ReplyDeleteIt’s also interesting how no one is disagreeing. Now, this could be because of fear of going against all of us, or because were faced with this every single day. To us it’s not that unheard of or shocking to see.
Well I found this to be quite shocking, I do not see how parents could say such a thing. I would think it would be an even better learning experience. Children can see that even people who have a disability can over come such a thing and be successful. It is quite disappointing to see parents act this way.
ReplyDeleteImagine you are a parent with a child with a disability. Seeing a lady with a similar disability would give your child confidence. Now imagine they heard Ms. Burnell being called a retard. How would your child feel. Well I can imagine they would feel horrible. It is really shocking that someone who think that retard isn't offensive.
Parents should not be afraid to talk to their children about things like this. It is something that will help your child to grow up and be understanding. If you cant talk to your child about this what are you going to when they ask about sex? Are you going to put it off? It will eventually come up. What happens if they hear it from a friend and they don't get the talk about safe sex and sexually transmitted diseases? Will you be happy if your daughter gets pregnant or your son gets a girl pregnant? The talk doesn't seem so bad now does it? Alas this is getting off topic. A talk needs to happen, if you don't talk to your kids you are just setting them up for disaster.
What those people are saying are horrible, I truly hope Cerrie Burnell has a long career as a TV host. Just so she proves those who criticize her wrong
IM ONLY SAYING THIS TO KEEP THIS DISCUSSION GOING****
ReplyDeleteWhat if there were no people with these kinds of disabilities in the first place? Would there be a need for parents to have to explain all these things to them? Would there be hate at all since there would be nothing to hate? Would there be no unhappiness in the world? Would there only be love in the world finally since noone was disabled? Would there be a need wheelchair ramps, special parking areas, hospitals? Would the world finally be peaceful and perfect?
***THIS IS ONLY TO KEEP THE DISCUSSION GOING. NONE OF THESE ARE MY PERSONAL OPINIONS.
I like what Dylan said but I really like how Pari put it.
ReplyDelete"What we don’t know or unsure of can scare us. We can scare ourselves into believing anything. I think these parents find it much easier to avoid this subject, because of their own personal fear, and choose to blame other people. After all it is much easier."
That is exactly what a major problem in our society is. We fear but we don't want to face our fear and do a bit of research. We just want to believe our way of thinking. Sadly we tend to believe stereotypes and things that are just not true. Lets hope we can change this way of thinking and find out the truth of people. I think the world could be a much better place.
I find your hypothesis interesting Minwoo but sadly I think there will always be hate in this world. People hate each other because of religion, skin colour and for reason only they know.
ReplyDeleteRionok, Im trying to shed some light on these parents who are unprepared for anything that may come up in their childs life. Something like this came up and they were simply unprepared for it and are taking their anger out in a negative way.
ReplyDeleteAnd like how you said, "you just need to deal with it and know anything could happen." I completely disagree with this comment because these parents who made these horrible comments about the shows host are simply "just dealing with it".
Ye paulsax I know there will always be hate in this world but, do you want to keep spreading that hate or spread the love? Choosing to do nothing is the same as choosing hate. Maybe, JUST maybe the love could rub off on them.
ReplyDeleteI really like the one thing you said there man "Choosing to do nothing is the same as choosing hate". That is an awesome way of putting it. If we don't do anything how is it going to get solved. Although I am sure members of the Taliban and other terrorist cells would love for us to put down our weapons and tell them we love them. Of course that is not what you are getting at.
ReplyDeleteHarujuku Boi your hypothesis is interesting as paulsax has said, but in my opinion, much like paul's again, there will always be hate and discrimination because people divide themselves into factions whether they know it our not. Look at our school for example, even though there are factions that intertwine. We have the Serbs, the druggies out back, the gamers in the cafe and at the far end of the tech hall, we have the people that hang outside of Torinos, we have the people who sit in the library all lunch, and we have the pool hall people. I may have left out some groups but you get my point. These factions usually see themselves as superior to others and so there is hate between them. In highschool it may be small but it is there, for example once I walked down into the pool hall and my one friend said "BAM AIDS" as if he got the disease the second he walked by these people. I am not saying I agree to this comment since I am friends with several of those people, but it is a good example for the seperation in even just a highschool.
ReplyDeleteHarujuku Boi, I'm sure that society would find something to complain about, sadly. There would always be something that makes us different. The fact that some people live in one place and not another is an example, or the fact that some places have more resources than others. Also, if there were no darker skin tones, then I think a lot of people who live near the equator would be burned, which would create a stereotype. If everyone were black, then somebody with a lack of iron in their body would be centred out (a lack of iron causes the body to become pale). If we were all identical, what would that make us as indivuduals? Nothing. Is that really best?
ReplyDeleteFor the most part, I don't believe that a difference between people should matter; nurture would define your position in the world. Today, there are many people who do not entangle themselves in the acts of racism, and there are those that do. I believe this is all because of the way we were raised. These parents, who choose to call disable people "retarded", contribute to the prejudist actions of the future.
So then you could say, all of the parents of these kids in the pool hall, the serbs, the torino kids, that whatever countless number of groups have failed to teach their children to accept people who are different from them. So basically parenthood = EPIC FAIL.
ReplyDelete* that was for rionok
ReplyDeleteWow Steve you brought up a point I totally overlooked. We have people who have gone to school with each other for at least a couple of years that absolutely hate each other. Why? Who knows. It really is sad that even in a school there is so much animosity between students, what happened to the elementary school days were everyone got along for the most part.
ReplyDeleteI never mentioned anything about school, that was David.
ReplyDeleteHaha I got nothing to really say to your post steve since I only asked those questions to simply keep the post going. BUT I really love what you said " If we were all identical, what would that make us as indivuduals? Nothing." which is so true. It is what makes us different that makes us so special.
ReplyDeleteWell it's not really parenthood harujuku its just the way we are, I know this is stupid but I found another example to bring up to emphasize my point. In Fairly Odd Parents one of the episodes Timmy( the main character) wishes for everyone to be the same so two dentists could not be discriminatory to him. It turns out that they still think that they were the "Best and greyest blobs there are" even though they were the exact same. And to paul... I said that not steve haha.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification Steve, I must of looked at your name and miss Davids while reading his comment, my bad.
ReplyDeleteIt's human nature to have conflict. There will always be conflict regardless of how nice we are. When everyhting is perfect, we natural instint to find something wrong.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I understood what Minwoo is saying. I think this is a touchy subject, and people should just get over it. You have no idea to predict who this can and can't happen to, karma is interesting way of life.
I dont understand why there has to be an "us" and why there has to be a "them"? As everyone here says, we all have a need to find somthing or someone to hate or something wrong as pari says. Whats the need for categories and groups? Its actually pathetic really. But its hard to break these barriers and change. But then again we place the blame somewhere else instead of taking responsibilty. It should no longer be about "us" or "them" but should be about "WE". Love your neighbour as your would yourself.
ReplyDeleteParenthood doesn't fail, its what Pari said on another blog, they are different so we fear them. To stop our fear we put them beneath us and make fun of them. It is human nature.
ReplyDeleteWhen I say fear I don't mean we think that they are scary and will hurt us (well some might) but we fear allowing ourselves to open up and get to know them. It's more nervousness than anything in this case.
As good and as much as a lot of people want that to happen harujuku it won't because there is that part of human nature that we can not seem to break. Unless scientists find a "hate gene" and learn to extract it this is how we will be forever on. I was talking to my teacher the other day(when I wasn't off on wisdom teeth break) and I said if you took two very like minded people and made them the only people on Earth, then yes for a while we would prosper but as the population grows there will be people thinking they can change things and changing things leads to confrontation and confrontation leads back to where we were before.
ReplyDeleterionok you said, "it won't because there is that part of human nature that we can not seem to break." So basically this hate gene will never dissappear and will always be there. So we should learn to accept and love these parents who made those horrible comments about this shows host no matter what they say or do? What about hitler then? Should we love him for everything he has done? No. We have to accept the example and giving up is non-existant. Giving up is only present when we stop trying.
ReplyDeletewe have to SET** the example
ReplyDeleteOkay, I refuse to believe that it is apart of human nature to divide ourselves. Afterall, one of the most unique human qualities is cooperation, which you learn in anthropology class. Nature is not the factor here. It is our nurture; how we are raised determines how we will function in society. A child who learns that people are all equal will be less likely to contribute to prejudice actions than a child with an ignorant parent.
ReplyDelete***On my second last comment, I said prejudist in my last sentence. I meant prejudice ***
This is great. I’m glad I was able to bring up such a big discussion. What rionok said is true. No matter what everyone will always think they are better then others even if we all are just the same. There is this one quote that I like that other people may have heard of. It goes… “We are all unique, just like everybody else.” Clever as it is, it brings to point that we really are just human deep down. I once watched a special on siamese twins who made it look like one person with two heads. The two twins, having two heads, have different personalities and feelings. So, even though they seem like one person, they’re really just two humans. That goes for all disabled. If anyone has ever watched the Paralympic games, it shows that disabled people can do extraordinary things. People in wheel chairs can play basketball, people can drum with their feet (as shown by a motivation speaker at OP a couple years back) and people with one hand can act and teach children. But we all just see the wheelchair, and no arms and the hand.
ReplyDelete"Nature is not the factor here. It is our nurture; how we are raised determines how we will function in society. A child who learns that people are all equal will be less likely to contribute to prejudice actions than a child with an ignorant parent."
ReplyDeleteThat is a very good point you have there Steve. Although the sad thing is that not all parents teach that to the extend that is needed.
I think you may have changed my mind on that. Maybe the fear factor can be changed when it comes to things that are deeper.
I'm not saying we should stop trying I'm just saying that it is almost impossible to achieve because of this part of our nature or, if the theories are right, because this hate gene lives on. I'm not saying that we need to accept Hitler either, honestly I don't get where that came from but maybe I'm just overlooking something I said. There are some good points about Hitler though, he was a genius in every point and had a great mind, and for all accounts except for the fact he wanted genocide, which is basically all that people know him for. There are very few people who, when asked about Hitler, would go up an defend him because all they can recall is the holocaust. This unnacceptance of Hitler though is another example of the hate gene. Though this time the "hate" is well deserved.
ReplyDelete(On a side note I find it funny how Hitler manages to find his way into every conversation:P)
This is just a thing with me but to Steve's nurture comment all I have to say is that it is nature to nurture.
ReplyDeleteDavid, once again, nature is not a factor here.
ReplyDeleteDavid, give me a source on this one, and I won't say anthing more on the comment. While watching "Ape Genius" in anthropology class, you learn that the ability to cooperate is a distinct human trait. So, how is division any part of our nature?
ReplyDeleteThey're no such thing as a perfect world, because humans are never satisfied. We always want more and are never content. This is why there's a conflict in every story. Humans thrive on conflict, once something is fixed we find other problems.
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ReplyDeleteSure we cooperate with eachother but that does not mean we NEED to cooperate with eachother every second of the day as it seems you are implying. We end up in conflict it's human NATURE to want CHANGE which brings conflict because of others who do not want this change.
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ReplyDeleteAgain I'm a strict believer in the fact that there is no nurture since it is NATURE to NURTURE
ReplyDeleteWhat you've said contradicts itself David. It's in our nature to want change, but there are those who do not want it. If it was in our nature, they how could anyone be resistant?
ReplyDeleteExcellent comment there Pari.
ReplyDelete"They're no such thing as a perfect world, because humans are never satisfied. We always want more and are never content. This is why there's a conflict in every story. Humans thrive on conflict, once something is fixed we find other problems."
Quite interesting, I think that there may be a bit of both, Nature and nurture. As amazing as we can be raised I think we will always have conflict for that exact reason.
There are people who are resistant because they want change, but not change of that sort
ReplyDeletePeople are resistant to change because of the way they were raised. They are pro-change also because of the way they have been raised. Certain people have been raised on one set of beliefs, while the others have been raised on the opposite.
ReplyDeleteThis is why some people do not want disabled people on television, while others do. Some have been raised with an idea that disabled people do not deserve to be on television, while the other have been raised to believe that everyone is equal. Also, you have no prove, but personal belief, that it is in our nature to change.
ReplyDelete*** Last sentence. Proof not prove ***
ReplyDeleteAlso, this nature/nurture debate derived from how devision is caused naturally. Change and division are not the same.
ReplyDeleteWhere is your proof that it is nurture and not nature? Both sides have no definitive proof it is an argument that will probably never end, but I must make the point that people are not resistant to change steve. They are resistant to certain types of change, for example, someone may develop a cure for cancer, and there will be a huge celebration, while there will be that minority saying why the hell are we celebrating? We just killed off one of our only predators and so the world will suffer.
ReplyDeleteI have given my proof. I've mentioned twice now that in anthropology class, cooperation is a distinct human trait as proven by "Ape Genius." You have argued that it is not cooperation, but devision, that comes naturally to humans. Yet, you have no proof.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the types of change that people are resistant to are because of how they were RAISED. It has nothing to do with nature.
"I'm not saying we should stop trying I'm just saying that it is almost impossible to achieve because of this part of our nature or, if the theories are right, because this hate gene lives on." There, you have argued that it's part of our nature to divide ourselves. You said this after Minwoo said we shouldn't be saying "us" or "them" but "we".
ReplyDeleteCOOPERATION is a human trait yes. IT DOES NOT MEAN that we will ALWAYS use it. You are ASSUMING that we automatically cooperate but all the while people are arguing and seeing different points of view. Look at this... EVERYONE nurtures so really that means that it is our NATURE to NURTURE since EVERYONE does it. The entire Ape Genius thing is not "proof" it is just something that points out a distinct trait we have gained and the chimps have not.
ReplyDeleteHow did this dicussion turn into an Anthropology class? There will never be a winner in the nature or nurture debate so we should probably get back to the point... Instead of disabled people, what about "fat" people? Do they have any less rights? Sometimes they are put into the same category. One actor went out on the streets in a fat suit and they got treated very differently. What are your views on that?
ReplyDeleteIt is not in our nature to divide ourselves. If a human separates themselves from the world, they are anti-social, which leads to certain social problems in a childs life.
ReplyDeleteI'm not suggesting that we cooperate for everything; however, it is a distinct human trait that we resort to when needed.
You also mention debates. I believe in nurture, you believe in nature. It is the society around us and personal believes that decide which side to argue for.
You also mention that it's natural to nurture. OBVIOUSLY. But that is not the argument. Just because nurturing is a natural thing, does not mean that this nurturing has no effect on personal belief and ideas. If I were a strong supporter of abortion, it would not be because of the FACT that I was nurtured, it would be because of HOW I was nurtured. There is where the debate derives from.
Yes, Ape Genius is proof, since it clearly states that professionals believe that it is in human nature to cooperate, not divide. You've mentioned a hate gene. I refuse to believe that it's programmed into every human to look for differences in people and divide ourselves from society, because it's not, as professionally proven by the professionals who created the Ape Genius movie.
I think we killed the conversation.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it Nature to Nurture?
ReplyDeleteCANT IT BE A MIXTURE OF BOTH?! because when it comes down to it, IT IS! And to answer Sarahs question. Being fat and being disabled are two totally differant things. One is racist and one is prejudice. Saying mean things to disabled people is racist because they have no choice and are born with it. Saying mean things to fat people is prejudice because when it comes down to it, they have a choice to lose weight where as disabled people have no choice at all. Its an insult to disabled people to be grouped with fat people in the first place.
different***
ReplyDeleteHumans divide from certain groups not every single group, for example, War. You have two groups who have decided to stop cooperating and divide from eachother both fighting for a gain that only one of them will achieve. Nurture is a lot from which we learn and what forms our personality but since it's natural to nurture then ISNT THE ENTIRE THING NATURE?!?!? Ok Steven your entire Ape Genius thing and hate gene defiance intrigues me. So your saying that there will be/ should be someone out there who does not look for differences in every person? When you first meet a person you see how they are different first as said by one of my teachers..(either Puley or Staples)... Tell me honestly that you have not discriminated against someone because of the way they are different ever in your life and I will say no more, but I know this as almost impossible.(I say almost impossible because I am also a strong believer that there is no impossible)
ReplyDeleteAgreed.. we have killed this conversation, ran it over with a truck, jumped on it a couple times, drove spears through it then ran over it again. To Harujuku Boi, sometimes it is hereditary problems that make people large...just saying...
ReplyDeleteYes, what if a large person actually has a disabilty and can't lose weight. There are many cases. But when people see large people they imediately think "oh it's their fault". What if it's not? They're still discriminated against.
ReplyDeleteThe point of cooperation is that there are two sides to a war David. You allign yourself with one group of people, cooperation.
ReplyDeleteYour beliefs and arguments derive from how you were raised. The fact that you were raised because it is natural to raise has nothing to do with the fact that your opinions have changed because of the way you were raised.
Finally, yes, I have noticed differences in people, but the people who I hang out with are more or less similar to me, which comes back to cooperation once again. I would never hate somebody just because of a difference. If I saw someone different than me, then I have no reason to hate them, until they open their mouth and give me a reason. If someone with one arm approaches me, I give them the benefit of the doubt before I decide I hate them. It is not until they give me a reason, that I'll choose to hate someboyd. Furthermore, you still have not provided proof for your belief of a "hate gene" and the fact that we divide ourselves from society.
*** somebody. Last paragraph, second last sentence. ***
ReplyDeleteYes but then its up to that person to find out if its a physical disability or if that person just became lazy somwhere along the way. If they cannot lose weight due to a disability then yes they would fall under the disabibility class but thats only in rare times. In most general cases its due to the human being lazy.
ReplyDeleteIf a large person were to not get a job because they needed to lose some weight, is that fair? I'm just bringing this up to keep the conversation alive.
ReplyDeleteIf the person doing the hiring needed someone skinny in order for them to be able to perform the job then yes its alright to not hire someone who does not fit the job profile. If the person who did not get hired and was a large person who could lose weight, then yes its fair. But if the person had a disability then yes its not fair but at the same time it is.
ReplyDeleteSo are you saying being fat is wrong? People can be fat and yet perfectly healthy. What if they don't want to change themselves? That doesn't make them lazy.
ReplyDeleteUmm no im not saying being fat is wrong. And no people cannot be fat and healthy at the same time. Its actually proven. Thats why fat people pay more for insurance because they are a ''health risk''.
ReplyDeleteI'm not talking about morbidly obese people in that sense. More of people on the chunky side. People who ARE extreamly obese usually do have a disability anyway. But I'm saying if someone is on the chunky side should they be treated differently?
ReplyDeleteNo, it doesnt matter. All I am saying is that if they are a bit chunky then they have the CHOICE to lose that weight.
ReplyDeleteWe also have the choice not to discriminate.
ReplyDeleteYes, but as how everyone in this discussion pointed out that human beings look for the flaws and want to find something to hate on. So if humans are naturally like this, then it is up to that chunky human being to meet the other judgemental persons standards. But since we are only human, as soon as they lose weight we will find another flaw in them and thus it will never end.
ReplyDeleteHoly moly im gone for two hours and I see about 20 more posts. Anyways something was on my mind and I have a question for anyone who reads this and i would appreciate if u answer with a sentence or two thats all.You dont have to answer this if you dont want to.
ReplyDeleteHave your parents ever gave you an throughly explantion on why special needs people are how they are, or have they just give you this common sentence I moslty hear "they are just weird".
Answer with a complete sentence because I do not want to read an entire paragraph.
Thank you
To answer your question dark chalklate my parents gave me a through explanation on why special needs people are the way they are (to the best of their ability) but I think more importantly they taught me that just because they have special needs doesn't they aren't human and that they deserve to be treated just as I would treat any other person, with respect.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the paragraph, it was more than just a one sentence thing for me.
To Harujuku Boi "Umm no im not saying being fat is wrong. And no people cannot be fat and healthy at the same time. Its actually proven. Thats why fat people pay more for insurance because they are a ''health risk''." It actually depends on how fat you are talking about. Obese people have an increased rate of heart failure, but not everyone who is fat is in the obese category. Even then they still might not be unhealthy, its is a INCREASE not a certain. Also what about the "skinny fat" people, ones who should be obese, but do not show it? They still would have the same increased chance if heart failure. Now don't take my next point as 100% true, its something I have heard but never confirmed. I have heard of fat people being healthy than some skinny people. **** This not something i can prove or have facts to back up, so don't believe me 100% ***
ReplyDeleteOh about the "skinny fat" people. What I mean by this, so no miss understands me, are people who eat very very unhealthy, but because of certain genetic factors do not appear fat, how are they any different then a regular fat person?
ReplyDeleteI can't believe how parents are acting. Like GROW UP! she is no different from you or me. This actually makes me very upset, how could a parent call her a "retard" No one with diabilities should be called that EVER. There is nothing wrong with her. The comments the parents are making is all discrimination. People are ignorant these days to disable people
ReplyDeleteThis is actually the most upsetting thing I have seen in a long time, especially with the rude remarks parents are making. Like your an adult, you are supposed to be a role model and by the things you are saying, you are teaching your kids to be just as rude and oblivious to the fact that some people are different. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Cerrie Bernell, she can do all the things an average person can do and if anything she should be congratulated more because she has been able to accept the fact that some people are showing discrimination towards her. Also lets be honest, she's doing much better for herself than the average person who doesn't have a disability. She is doing an amazing job on staying positive and she is truly teaching us all a lesson. People need to get over the fact that everyone is not perfect and have to put themselves in her shoes.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree. If someone has a disability in anyways, why should they be discriminated by others? So what if an amputee is the host of a childrens show. If i were a kid i wouldnt care. why is it that the parents are the ones that care so much, it's not offending anyones children so what does it matter? It doesn't matter.
ReplyDeleteIt is extremely rude for people to make fun of someone who was born with a physical inability. I admire Cerrie for growing up with one arm and being able to do the things she does. However, Cerrie gives parents an opportunity to talk to their children, when they are watching her program, to talk about special needs people. It is the parents fault for giving their children the wrong impression if they do not thoroughly explain this matter with their children, in the right way. At a young age, children need to be taught about certain topics and most importantly to not discriminate a person based on their look or image.
ReplyDeleteAnd plus, i'm sure that amputee children are watching her show as well, and she's giving them insight and hope that they can become successful and that they are normal, because there are people out there will the same disability.
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